YOUR COMMENTS

Why are there people posting from California, Tennessee, etc, here?

Whatever. It makes me laugh when I hear people who live in the free-est state in the Union to complain about high their taxes are. As a NH resident, the only taxes I pay are federal income, meals, entertainment, vehicle registration and fuel taxes. This is almost nothing compared to Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, California, etc. How much lower can we get without ditching law and order? Really, people, get over yourselves.
- Michael, Hudson

Most overlooked by the objectors is the illegal immigrant health care issues in Canada, where there is none.
Why?
Because the illegals in Canada are aware that if they go into the government run health care system they will be spotted, singled out and removed.
It has been so there for many years and it works surprisingly well.
- Gary, Sandwich

To all of you who have said, in one form or another: "Any hospital taking government funds is required by law to treat those who go to the ER regardless of ability to pay". That is definitely true - the health CARE, even without the health COVERAGE, is there! I do concede that point.

It's a fact that can be easily documented, though, that many hospitals, especially in the American southwest with a large influx of illegals, have closed their doors. Why? Because those who go to the ER for their health care and do not pay are forcing them to, and no enterprise, including hospitals, can operate at a loss forever. Hospitals must get paid to enable them to stay open.

To underscore the double (triple?) standard that exists in this country (one for our politicians, one for the illegals among us, and one for the rest of us), consider this:
A number of years ago one of my sons, just a few years out of high school but ineligible for coverage because he was too old for it under our family plan and was then working at a low-level and low-paying job with no insurance coverage at the time from his employer, had to go to the ER for a broken collar bone. He was treated and subsequently demand (I use "demand" and not "request") for payment was made by the hospital. He tried to get help from all those supposed "available avenues" for help but was unable to do so, and why? because he had a job!
Guess what? He was hounded for payment, which he made over a long period of time. There was no help for him, a citizen, but why is it, though, that illegals who go to the ER get the help for free? Do you know of any illegals who are hounded for payment?

Let's remember: Yes, there are those who are uninsured (have no insurance coverage), for whatever reason, but out of that number no one is really without health care!
- Guy Plante, Manchester

Obama lies, Grandma dies. Simple as that.
- Jim, Manchester

Governor Phil Bredesen (D) of next-door Tennessee is being interviewed as saying the Obama plan is identical to TennCare which just recently bankrupted the State of Tennessee.
Hey CBS, NBC, ABC --- call this democratic governor and quote him liberally in your state sympathetic media outlets.
- Warren Vaughan, Bowling Green KY

A quick check will tell you how well our politicians really think the system they propose will work: First, it won't take effect until after the 20120 elections so we won't know the awful truth until the Big O is safely in his second term (ain't gonna happen!), and, secondly, they exempt themselves. Those two things tell us all we need to know. If it's so urgent, why wait four years to give us all the wonderful benefits? This is a sham of the greatest magnitude, and all our lawmakers as well as our President know it.
- Ed Hornyak, Cartersville, GA

Medicare Advantage is government waste at the hands of the private sector. Paying private companies to provide medical insurance costs 12 - 15% more than standard Medicare. Get rid of MA, if people want private insurance, buy it yourselves. Anyone who rails against government waste and spending, but goes on to defend MA or attack Obama for trying to get rid of it, is a hypocrite. The Republicans rail against government waste, but then go on to propose a bill which states: "PROTECT MEDICARE AND NOT CUT IT IN THE NAME OF HEALTH CARE REFORM: President Obama and Congressional Democrats are promoting a government-run health care experiment that will cut over $500 billion from Medicare to be used to pay for their plan. Medicare should not be raided to pay for another entitlement." Republicans would never cut Medicare waste, because it would cut into their senior votes and they need all the votes they can get.

And a system of verification is in the bill, it just doesn't say exactly how they will verify. From the CRS Report on HR3200:
"However, others note that under §142(a)(3) of
the bill, it is the responsibility of the Health Choices Commissioner (Commissioner) to administer
the 'individual affordability credits under subtitle C of title II, including determination of
eligibility for such credits.' Thus, it appears, absent of a provision in the bill specifying the
verification procedure, that the Commissioner would be responsible for determining a mechanism
to verify the eligibility of noncitizens for the credits."

If the tax credits are administered via the IRS, legal status is already taken care of because you need an SSN. There's little the gov can currently do about fake papers without concrete identification like photo in system, fingerprint, etc. I'm not against verifying eligibility, in fact I think it should be done, but I don't think the nuts and bolts of that verification needs to be in the bill, all that matters is that it gets done and only eligible people are serviced. The people who are complaining it is too long want to make it even longer? Fine, put text in there that specifically says a birth certificate, green card, visa, or other document proving legal residence or citizenship in the U.S. is required, but don't complain that it's too long.
- Paul, San Diego, CA

Perhaps instead of an appology Joe Wilson should have invited Obama over to his house for a beer. That was Obama's method wasn't it? It seems so funny that these Dems want an appology when I can't think of a single time that Obama's ever appologized for anything. If he blunders around calling PA residents gun-loving maniacs or white police officers stupid that's just an unfortunate moment of "inartful" expression on his part. He is never made accountable, but if anyone should say anything against The One, then they should be flogged and made to confess their error in the most public manner. The double standard is quite breathtaking and might even be funny except for the fact that so few people seem to notice!
- Lee, Zanesville OH

Obama says: "he's going to cut $500 billion from Medicare" (to make his plan defecit neutral) but "seniors shouldn't listen to those scary that Medicare benefits will be cut" but also "Medicare is unsustainable and going broke" but then again "Medicare is a program that works really well for our seniors"... Huh???

Obama says: "our health-care system is placing an unsustainable burden on taxpayers, especially Medicare"... So, exactly how does this justify a government takeover of health care???
Sounds like the government is the problem, not the solution...

And this was speech #112 that this guy has given on health-care, you think he would be able to deliver a rational, coherent argument for his plan by now...
Listening to that drivel is 50 minutes of my life I wasted and will never get back!!! The less control these clowns have, the better!!!
- Hedge, Newton

Wilson has discombobulated even his own party by not being politically correct.
The only thing in question is: "When is an untruth not a lie?"
1. If illegals are able to get SS cards because they're here working---then they can get into the Government run health care system.
Obama guarantees there are no provisions for them to use it but there is nothing keeping them from it.

2. O and the Dems use the strongest words,i.e. "Death Panel", to try to use absurdity to disprove the argument of rationing for the aging possibly causing an earlier demise. If an 84 year old needs a surgical procedure done to prolong his or her life, the decision might be made to forgo surgery for pain medication control and possibly put them in a waiting line.A death panel doesn't have to give a thumbs down to make it happen they just have to make them so miserable that they WANT to off themselves!
3."If you like your current Insurance plan you can keep it." ...meanwhile they make it more attractive for the employer to take the fine and drop the coverage so you have to go to Uncle Bureaucrat to have health insurance.

Just as lawyer Joseph N. Welch called out McCarthy in the 1960s from spinning his lies and distortions over and over and getting massive coverage and backers for his outrages so Wilson yelled out "You Lie" to a President who is a weaver of untruths that his backers swoon over and media runs to put ribbons on.

In the midst of that setting, when the Dem-heavy crowd gave minutes-long, cheering, standing ovations for every froth that came from his mouth, (I believe the longest ovation on the applause meter was when he was heard to say, "Hold it, I think my shoe's untied!") and with Lizzie Borden and Colonel Klink on either side looking as though they were waiting on the bus back to the asylum, I was losing interest at home !
It was again, another designer set-up from the people that brought you the Sham-WOW and the "Burger-King KING!!

Mr. Wilson was chastised by both parties for not sitting quietly and being a good soldier and eating the rancid stew---Wilson spoke UP!
I say Wilson is the face to be added to Mount Rushmore!
BRAVO!
- Don Wise, Knoxville TN

The bill Obama referred to HR 3200 Sec 246 states "No federal payments for undocumented aliens". This means they can buy in, but not get federal money. If illegals do not have insurance they will continue to utilize the ER for health care which drives up the costs FOR ALL with insurance. Do you propose they should be kicked out to die in the street? If so, just say so. If they buy in, that is more $ in the pool. What the republicans (wilson)proposed is similar to what republicans attached to Medicaid during the Bush administration-an extra layer of bureaucracy to weed out any illegals who slip thru the cracks. It costs about $100 per every 15 cents it saves. While Wilson also supported payments for hospitals to help cover the unreimbursed costs of treating illegals. For Obama a bipartisan bill is the goal, why increase the expenses (such as this) and let the republicans weaken reform and protect the ins industry when they will vote against it anyway? Check out just how much money Joe Wilson gets from the health ins/health care industry.

Any one of us could find ourselves in a hospital operating room tomorrow. I am aware of a medical professional who was responsible for preparing the WRONG leg for amputation TWICE. Is it really ok with you that there be no way hold people accountable? Doctors and hospitals protect their own and we put ourselves and our family in their care. Do you really want to take away the only way we have to drive out the incompetent?
- Frances Jordan, Nashville, TN

- Rich, Nashua, NH

your problems are just, but think about when "those" who you are lambasting come back into power. OH THEN will you scream bloody murder, again.
- scott, chichester

This entire discussion is moot. It doesn't matter how the law is written if intentional loopholes are included, with the sole purpose of circumventing the professed "spirit" of the legislation and getting what they REALLY want by going through the backdoor.

What I want to know, and I don't understand why everyone isn't asking the same question, is why if this Healthcare Reform is so wonderful, why shouldn't it be mandatory that ALL politicians that vote for it MUST be covered under it just as we ordinary citizens must. It seems that EVERYTHING politicians saddle us citizens with, ie; Social Security, Health Coverage, 401-K retirement plans,etc. they opt out of through acceptions in the legislation. How are we to believe them if they don't even believe themselves?

It doesn't matter what party they are affiliated with, they are ALL LIARS!!
- Bill, Anaheim, CA

Bipartisanship is deluding the American people, who are unwilling to admit that the candidate they supported is ever wrong. Every time they're backed into a corner (i.e., at risk of facing a truth about President Obama), his supporters always come back with, "Yeah, but Bush _____," or "Racism." I voted for Bush. Although I would never have have voted for Kerry, I was extremely disappointed with Bush, who was socially conservative but fiscally as liberal as any President in a long time. I think Obama is equally as deceptive, and will prove to cost the US taxpayers more that Bush did, with little to show for it.
- PittDave, Canton, OH

Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush... last 8 years... last 8 years.... war monger war monger war monger.... Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush ...... record debt record debt.... we inherited this Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush.....

STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!!!

Is it me, or has President Obama spent more in 9 months than Bush did in 8 years? Am I wrong or just delusional?

Using the previous administration as the backdrop for all the errs of this adminstration is a COP OUT... how about analyzing the current situation? The Bush Administration is over... it is time to move on. You have control of the House, the Senate, and the Presidency... whatever happens now is solely in the hands of the Democrats.

This nonsense of "where were you the past 8 years?" needs to stop--- you are either for health care or not. You are either for big spending and big government or not. Those who are not are taking a stand. Deal with it.
- Brian, Concord

obama has spent more in his 7 months than bush did his whole presidency, he does lie, his statements have been proven wrong and finally someone called him on it, that man is a good man for calling the president out, not to mention obama has kept (and added to)the patriot act that all of the democrats hated, and even done more to step on the peoples liberties so yeah...he lies
- will, boscawen

Hmmm, Joe Wilson blugeoned over the head, about his comments calling the Prez out on being a liar. (Obama wants to do the same!) What about when Harry Reid called Bush a liar? He wasn't forced to apologize publicially!!
Do you think Congress is going to make an amendment that eliminates giving health care to illegal immigrants?? Hey they will help put them back in office, just as ACORN helped register them in the latest election. They know where their "bread is buttered"...lies, lies, lies.
It is time for a REVOLUTION....on to D.C. with pitchforks and put them all into the Potomac. Sorry about fouling the water!!
- Debbie, Randolph, VT

Obama lied as does the author of this column. It will cover Illegals because there is nothing to prevent it In fact amendments presented to prevent their coverage was voted down by Democrats who don't give a damn what the influx of third worlders will do to this country. As long as they are okay and have a job for life they are happy. With the expected horde of new constituents supported by overtaxed Americans we will never see anything but corrupt democrat politicians from here to eternity.
- Mary, weymouth,ma

Rich from Nashua...agree with you 100%.
- JoAnne, Manchester

Hey Cathie...have you ever heard of Medicare and Medicaid?
- John, Hooksett

Uh, for real? To the person who asked about the constitutional issues, there are many reasons what you said isn't true. First, although you cannot discriminate against a person based upon their national origin, you are obviously free to exclude any and all from this country. If illegals come here, they can be deported. There's nothing in the constitution preventing that. You couldn't say "Mexican immigrants don't get health care" but you of course can say "illegals don't get subsidized health care." Which is what he said. And Joe Wilson's outburst was patently false.

Seriously, where were all of you for the past eight years? We start wars, invade other countries, imprison people indefinitely, torture them, listen in on phone calls, emails, and library book borrowings, try to ban flag burning and gay marriage, watch as the right-wing judiciary cedes more and more rights to the police state, and you guys don’t make a freaking peep. Then, someone tries to reform healthcare, and its suddenly an Orwellian nightmare. Nobody complains about the very real bank record disclosure rules of anti-terror policies, but then there’s a rumor the feds can look into your bank accounts somehow because of healthcare reform, and you get up in arms. WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THEY ACTUALLY ENACTED THAT POLICY? Yes, Bush is gone, but I find it very very disconnected from reality when all these people's heads explode from the threat of the federal government FROM HEALTHCARE when they were perfectly willing to permit an unprecedented expansion of government police power under Bush. Does that seem strange to anyone else?
- Rich, Nashua, NH

The US is a banana republic now. We have no money. But at least we can still borrow, for now...
- Kevin, Portsmouth, NH

I wish Joe Wilson was a senator in NH he is absolutely 100% right and a brave man. I'm donating to his campaign.
- LHemy, Plaistow

I often wonder where all the Wilsons and Tea-Party folks were when W was running up the biggest deficit in history.

I think that there can be a bipartisan solution to healthcare. The issue with illegal immigrants is a red herring. Until we fix our immigration policies, illegal immigrants are going to be a problem in every part of society--healthcare is no different than gang drug wars, farm workers, factory workers. If an illegal immigrant goes into an emergency room, the will (and should) be cared for--so we are paying for them anyway. They may as well be able to buy insurance and stay out of the emergency room. Personally, I think we should focus on how healthcare issues effect American citizens and deal with immigration separately. Basically, most of the Republicans want to kill healthcare because it won't help them in the election, and it will hurt Obama if something doesn't happen. This is so sad and cynical. Republicans and Democrats-let's get it done.
- francine, los angeles

Well, at least we now know there is a Joe Wilson in D.C. who is worthy of respect.
- Rick, Portsmouth

The whole issue of illegal immigrant coverage is a red herring. As long as you have a large illegal population ( and we have 12 million plus of 'em here doing those jobs like fruit picking, dishwashing and house cleaning that American citizens don't want to do), they are going to go to emergency rooms for care. Any hospital taking government funds (e.g., to subsidise resident training) is required by law to treat them ( any anyone else who comes in for that matter) regardless of ability to pay. We all pay for it in the form of higher taxes and healthcare premiums. This is the status quo and it aint going away--the notion that hospital staff should check patients for their immigration status and dump those that aren't here legally on the street is absurd. So ironically enough, if you could force illegals to enroll in health insurance and pay something for it, we'd all be better off! But its much easier to make jingoistic statements about it, isn't it! By all means improve the immigration/border control status if you want, but don't try to make it into a big healthcare issue--doing so only reveals ignorance.
- Alex, Gaithersburg MD

Saying that " Obama lied but is OK because it was for a good cause" was like admiting that Von Papen was right when he said that "The end justifies the means".
- Carlos Alonso, Palm Springs, Fl

Obama is lying and is being deceitful because he should know better as a "constitutional" scholar.

When he says illegals WILL NOT be included in this plan he lies, because he knows that once a federal law is passed, it is constitionally mandated to apply to citizens and illegals alike. You cannot exclude an illegal from being covered under a public option just as you cannot exlude an illegal from receiving lawyers and assistance in the justice system or schooling in our public classrooms. If just one illegal alien challenges this new law it will be immediately found unconstitional to exclude illegals and therefore all illegals WILL BE COVERED!!

Obama KNOWS this and yet he stands there and deceitfully LIES that illegals will not be covered.

I challenge one Obama supporter to tell me how this public health care option can constitionally be valid.
- Cathie S, Chester

You can call me naïve for believing any bi-partisan plan could ever happen, but here’s my DemaPublican plan:

If the Republicans could agree to raise the ceiling on income eligibility for Medicaid, the public option could be dropped from the exchange pool. That covers the uninsured people who couldn’t buy health insurance at any price.

The insurance companies will push the Republicans to keep mandates because it increases their risk pool and would allow them to take on all comers and keep people when they get sick- and still make a profit.

Insurance companies must be required to offer insurance nationally and allow people to keep their policy if they move. This would introduce many more options for people and provide competition.

Leave Medicare alone.

The annual and lifetime ceiling on coverage has to be changed or dropped. Too many people are going bankrupt, even with health insurance.

Rates need to be regulated. As costs go down, profits will increase. I don’t think the industry will voluntarily lower their rates. They should be required to pass the savings on to consumers.

Tax credits or tax deductions for private insurance would seal the deal with Republicans. That would enable small companies and self-employed people to purchase insurance at net rates comparable to large employer subsidized plans. It’s interesting that Republicans are giddy about this item (McCain pushed it), because the cost ends up being less revenue for the government. The loss of revenue would have to be recovered somehow. Taxes? Whereas the public option would be self funded.

Taxes and health care costs will both increase in the future- even we do nothing. So let's at least address the sorry state of our health care system and get more for our money.
- Gary Way, Bedford

Visit any hospital or clinic in the Southwest and see first-hand how illegal immigrants work the system. Witness pregnant women running across the border to give birth in a US hospital. Great medical care and they establish an anchor baby to further their claim for US residency.

Believe it, those in this country illegally have absolutely no problem receiving medical care. None what so ever. Rep. Wilson was, unfortunately, correct in his outburst.
- James Martinez, Albuquerque, NM

Accusations of racism for opposition to Emperor Obama has been worn out. As in the fairy-tale, the emperor has no clothes. Keep speaking out. Send Joe Wilson and all in congress who defend our freedoms some $$$ for their campaign war chests. Better to lose one's health insurance than our freedoms. Repeal the 111th congress and all their works!
- Mary Anderson, Plaistow, NH

Rep Wilson was not the only one that showed incivility with his "You Lie" comment.

Only minutes before, Obama - in a *prepared speech*, not an excited utterance - clearly identified American citizens all but by name, and declared of their expressed opinions, "IT IS A LIE, PLAIN AND SIMPLE." (Not "untrue", "inaccurate", or "over-blown", but A LIE.)

As abhorrent as both comments were, I find Obama's worse, as it was planned in advance and was directed at American citizens.

While I'm at it, it bothers me that Obama views - however over the top - the actions of American citizen that attended town hall meetings as mere "BICKERING".

Look it up, it's in his speech.
- Mike Zarowitz, Cambria, CA

These comments are a perfect example of why a lot of papers only print comments that address the content of the editorial and if they attack another poster - they aren't published. It becomes a blood sport.
- Frank, York Maine

Thanks Frank from Exeter, your points are right on the money. A couple of additional points, someone who needs medical care in an emergency will not be denied care, as they are not denied now. They are denied free coverage because they are illegally in this country and not paying taxes.
Also everyone who screams about Bush's war, why doesn't Mr. Obama end it now and pull out our troops?
With regards to Rep. Wilson, Nancy Pelosi stated there would be no sanctions and now she says there will. Did she lie?
- john, grantham

As I watch the video of the Tea Party people marching on DC I find it ironic that many of them look to be over 65 years old. I would guess that quite a few of them collect Social Security and get Medicare. I wonder if they truly don't realize that those are government run programs. If they do then shame on them for being hypocrites.
- John, Hooksett

Obama told us before the election that he wanted to take-over -- for our own good, of course -- the financial, health and education industries. He's just keeping his promise. What's the problem?
- William, Marblehead, MA

Drew is correct. It was inappropriate to scream it out at an address in Congress but the frustration of those who oppose this on principle is clearly there. The mainstream media clearly perpetuates so much of the misleading rhetoric - that government control will mean lower costs (it won't), Medicare has lower administrative costs (wrong - there is no accounting of revenue collection costs and myriad other administrative costs buried in other federal agencies) and many more.

The real issue is we are not seeing the kinds of reforms we really need, such as tort reform and being able to purchase insurance across state lines. Why? Because politicians on both sides of the aisle are bought and paid for by lobbyists and funders.

We need money truly out of politics - as it is in New Hampshire. Smaller districts nationwide, state and federal, are the answer. Make money unnecessary because districts are so small no one would need the money. Elect governors and senators by state legislators such as in the parliamentary system rather than with campaigns costing in the tens of millions of dollars.

This would bring political leadership closer to the people; constituent service would be so much easier in a smaller district; legislators would be essentially part time and uncompensated as in New Hampshire - they wouldn't stay forever but would be there as long as they are effective and wanted by their constituents who know them well.

Such reform won't come easy - the tea party in DC today is only the start. Significant structural change is necessary, not just putting in another set of career politicians.
- John Cox, Chicago Illinois

Ed in Londonderry - Looks like YOU are the racist.
- Rob, Portsmouth

Dave, Sandwich, how old are you? 6 ? You speak of a proud member of the Joe Wilson and the 'Sons of Confederate Veterans' have you ever heard of Robert Byrd? He was the grand leader of the KKK. A clansman, do you know what that means. What about all the democrats in th e house and senate in the 60's that voted against the Civil Rights act? The GOP passed that legislation. Get a clue and try to inform yourself. Read your last posting and try to be objective. You sound more ridiculous than your Kenyan born pesident. Obama Lies, gramndma dies!
- Allan, Rochester

Well, here it is, alas the circle is complete.
Now we have the race card thrown in the mix. Thank you Ed from Londonderry.


Why must the Democrats/Republican resort to demeaning, debasing and the vitriolic partisan politics.

Can we not just stick to the issues at hand: that goes for everyone! WE ARE AMERICANS FIRST.

Hate to sound like a sound byte, but common people. Just say yes or no to this action.

Leave the bitter commentary out of it. The art of persuasion is absent here...
- Abigal Adams, Bedford

Immigration "reform" is a coming major agenda item for the democrats.

A result of this will be that the immigrants not currently in the country legally will be made legal.

No illegal immigrants means no coverage for illegal immigrants.

I guess it really wasn't a lie (half truths seem good enough for Obama).
- Tom, West Bridgewater, MA

It seems that we've reached a point in our democracy where the person who yells loudest is somehow considered to have the best argument. Government has somehow become sports radio. No discussion is allowed. Anyone who disagrees with you is either a socialist or a Nazi who must not be allowed to speak at any cost. It's sad.

Wilson acted like a jerk and is rightly being castigated for it. The fact that the UL and its cronies are supporting this jerk speaks volumes to their credibility - or what's left of it.
- Jason, Londonderry

Only the UL and its cronies would defend an extremist jerk like Wilson. Then again, birds of feather...
- Jason, Londonderry

"Bush voters." That's the crowd we are dealing with, the people who put the man back in office who basically wrecked this country. Obama was handed the resulting outstanding mess, and of course, "Bush voters" would have to take responsibility for Bush era mismanagement in order to be fair toward Obama. They won't, so we get catcalls. A guy like Wilson is the real liar, and like liars will do, he's made a fool of himself and likely won't get reelected.

When it comes to veracity, and you compare Obama to his opponents, it becomes perfectly clear who is constantly lying. The Bush voting koolaid addicts live in a lie, where facts don't matter and history didn't happen. One can only pity them for how lost they are.

So guess what? We'll pass the health care bill without any GOP votes. NOT ONE! Just ignore the Bush voters, that's the best thing for America. Consider yourselves uneeded.
- Tom Labrie, Rochester

Not that a partisan hack like Leon cares but here is a direct quote from the government run MSNBC from the day after his presidents speach "Today, for the first time as far as we know, the administration is backing a provision that would require proof of citizenship before someone could enroll in a plan selected on the exchange." So if they decided today for the first time to "backing a provision" wouldn't that mean that before today they didn't back it. If you really read the plan though this isn't even true. The socialist democrats have denied bringing to a vote at least 2 amendmants that would have prevented the Illegal imigrants from gettin on the plan. Notice it says the taxpayer will pay for visits anyway and once you have one visit you are in the system. Try reading something besides the NY Times and watching CNN leon, you clearly are ignorant and blind to what is happening. Obama lies, grandma dies!

Here, the administration also concedes that hospitals would be compensated with public funds for the care of undocumented immigrants.
- Allan, Rochester

The Republican Party as shown in this absurd editorial has become the home of far, far, right-wing wingnuts. Your attacks are vicious, evil spirited, and at their foundation, racist.
- ed, londonderry

This is NOT the Country I grew up in. As we condemn our grandchildren to a life of indentured servitude to pay for this "change," I hope everyone screaming in support of these socialist policies understands the consequences of what they're doing.
- Lou, Bedford

The complaint is "If" a person is illegal and therefore can't get a valid Social Security number and "If " they then use a stolen Social Security number then they "could" get services that "should" have been denied them. The complaint is there is not enough checking to see if that individual is cheating the system. The reality is until we go to Retinal identification ID cards and everyone has a RFID micro chip implanted in them there will always be fraud and there is no way around that. Of course that will never happen so guess what there will always be fraud.
- Don Armstrong, Henniker

Kevin in Lancaster is 100% right.

The only thing that anybody can really comment on is the current House version of the bill. Legislators need to come up with a new bill based on what the President told the nation on Wednesday night.

That will be the true test to see if he lying or not, but we won't know until there is a new bill on the table. Just about everything in the current bill would make the President a liar.

I also wanted to address people who are out of their minds about George Bush's reckless spending on the Iraq war. The Constitution allows for "providing for the common defense." Whether you agree with it or not, he had Constitutional authority to spend on national defense.

Where in our Constitution does it allow a President to spend trillions of dollars on a stimulus plan filled with pet projects, earmarks, and other frivolous spending? Where in our Constitution does it allow for the government takeover of corporations? Where in our Constitution does it give the President authority to appoint unvetted "czars" to his administration?

Dems go crazy about the money that George Bush spent to help keep this country from experiencing another tragedy like we experienced 8 years ago yesterday, yet they support an economic stimulus plan that cost more than we spent on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why? "Well, we need to do something to clean up the mess we inherited...."

At least we'll have an underground highway for turtles among other things...unbelievable.
- Brian, Concord

If the liberals are so confident that their proposal will not cover illegals then why did they "kick out" the republican amendment that stated so very clearly? Probably because they fully intend on covering them which is their reason to continue to use the 46 million number!
- Jesse, Oroford

Dear Leon,

Hate to break it to you, but health insurance is NOT, repeat NOT, a right. And the level of health care one receives is likewise not a right. Health care is a commodity--a finite resource which must be spread around to make as much of it available to as many as possible. If you make it equally available to all, what you'll end up doing is ensuring that a few pay for minimal care for all. Gone will be the days of high cancer, etc., survival rates. Gone will be the availability of new treatments which improve quality of life. Look at how many Canadians come here, and tell me their system is better. Can you?

And JoAnne--treating upwards of 20 million people who aren't supposed to be here is strictly an immigration issue and not a health care one? Really? Then perhaps you'll be so kind as to explain why so many ER's in border states like CA, TX, and AZ are closing because they simply cannot afford to stay open any longer.

And for the Bush-bashers: the man is out of office. Let it go, already. Frankly, the costs in terms of lives and dollars if this monstrosity of a bill passes would make Iraq look tame in comparison.
- Randy, Rochester

PS to Ian Muir, who writes that prevention is always cheaper than treatment. I made the more modest assertion, to an M.D. friend, that knowing about a medical problem sooner is always better than knowing later, and he gave two counterexamples: (1) Pap smears used to be recommended every year, resulting in lots of worry and expense after positive tests that became negative without intervention. The test is now recommended every three years. (2) Federal regulations still require a chest X-ray for workers exposed to asbestos. My doctor friend wrote: "Since there is (still) no data to suggest that finding an asymptomatic asbestos-related cancer...reduces mortality, but there is data to suggest that frequently repeated x-rays can cause cancer, no responsible occupational physician complies with the requirement."

Back to the topic, government does not always know better than the individual! In the above examples, government mandated extra costs that the individual might not have seen fit to pay. Embarking on a program of central management where the stated goal is to reduce costs will also produce errors, some of which are ghoulish.

Leon of Manchester, the US Government has no Constitutional power to give us guarantees of anything. It is a limited government established to redress misconduct and provide a few listed services such as roads. Thank you for admitting that your real problem is with profit. Obamites tend to think that other people's success is what causes them to fail.

Separately, I commented last week that it was healthy that defenders of Obama were forced to defend socialism. I see today that some of them find themselves forced to defend lying. Breathtaking.
- Spike, Brentwood NH

Isn't it interesting that just as Sarah Palin was thoroughly trashed by democrats and the media for her comments about "death squads", now Joe Wilson is being thoroughly trashed by the Dem's and the media for his "liar" statement about covering illegals under the healthcare bill. YET, subsequent to all this hoopla, Congress has deleted all references to oversight panels and end of life counseling from the bill. Now, the Congressional Research Service has stated that the bills before Congress would include illegal aliens, since the bills do not restrict them or require proof of citizenship (NY Times 9/12/09). Fortunately, Congress, in the form of the “gang of 6” is now taking steps to “fix” that loophole.
Instead of being destroyed by the Democrats and the media, these folks should be congratulated and supported for having the fortitude and integrity to stand up and point out the misleading and downright disingenuous statements being made by this Administration. Perhaps it is because integrity, ethics and morality aren’t the strong suits of this Administration and the liberal er, progressives in Congress and the media.
- Sandy, Thornton

If the Dems were serious about not covering illegals or not using federal money to pay for abortions, then why did they vote down Rep amendments that would have explicitly said so? Because they know that if the law is not explicit, the courts will force coverage for those two.
Jack of Derry is correct: For an individual with an illness, it is cheaper to provide preventative care than care after the fact. But for 300 million people it is more expensive to provide preventative care than medical care. Preventative care is a laudible goal, BUT IT WILL BE MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.
It is also a fact that there are not and will not be enough doctors to provide the preventative coverage along with the more serious medical care that Obama and the Dems are pushing.
I don't want people to go without coverage, but there WILL be rationing. It will be unavaoidable. And with reduced reimbursements needed to pay for the Dems plans, no one will be able to afford to pay back the loans to become a doctor. So fewer doctors in the future. Only the very rich (private care) and Congress will get good health care.
Let' fix the real problems - no pre-exisiting conditions, no waiting periods, allow insurance companies to sell across state lines and meaningful tort reform.
- Frank, Exeter

Obama lies.......we might get health care. Bush lies........the blood of our children runs in the streets of Iraq. I'm a-ok with Obama lies.
- Jake, Manchester

Who's kids are dying in Afghanistan? Obama's Vietnam is costing 1-2 troops per day but that's okay?

By the way, Wilson did not lie, under the plan in effect that day, illegals could sign up for healthcare because they would not have to prove that they were US citizens. Those signing them up were not allowed to ask if they were legal citizens. So who lied?
- Jim S, Abington, MA

Spike - did you feel this way under George Bush? I doubt it. I think it is safe to assume you are a hard core republican and anything Obama does is bad for our country.

How is that war going on that GB started? Do you think our economy has anything to do with the money we have spent over there?

What a load of crap.
- Sue, Bedford

Aren't most of you people who don't want the government to control health care, the same people who do want the government to control what drugs an individual can and cannot put into their own bodies?

Seems a little hypocritical, and coincidentally always seems to support big pharma and big insurance. Just lookin out for the big guys, I guess. More control and choice for big industries and less control and choice for the average citizen.

I can understand why congressmen and senators would support this ideology, as these big companies line their coffers. I just can't wrap my head around why average people would support these companies controlling them.
- Thad, Dalton

He certainly does.

I would have stood up and shouted

LIAR, LIAR, Pants on Fire!

This guy lies better than Bubba did when he had his run of the whitehouse, I'm not sure how Hillary ever kept track of him what with the lack of a GPS tracker system or maybe they just got wise and implanted a Lojack in him.
- Jack Alex, Manchester

Benjamin Franklin said that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. He was right, and the UL is outrageous for calling the president a liar for making basically the same statement. Preventive measures to ward off disease and injury may not show up as a savings in the same fiscal year, but are nonetheless a huge savings in the long run. In money. In productivity. In quality of life. In saving lives. Ask a doctor if preventive care is a waste of money.


I
- Kerry, Londonderry

And the anecdote about the guy (Otto Raddatz) that died because his insurer delayed his treatment for failing to report gallstones. Guess what? While the insurer did cancel his policy for non-disclosure they reinstated it, he got his stem cell transplant, and lived 3 more years. How'd he die? His second stem cell transplant donor died. His insurer didn't kill him.
- Chris L, Manchester

Hey Dom. I'm sure that you meant to mention Clinton,Gore,Kerry and many other Dems also said that Iraq had WMD's. as well as the intel services of various countries. I guess that the "dumb" George Bush pulled off a huge con in getting all of the aforementioned people/countries to lie as well. As for you Jake, many more people will die from Obama Care than have died in Iraq.
- R. Cassidy, Hudson

I am embarrassed for the Union Leader, and for the GOP. To defend Addison Graves (Joe) Wilson - a proud member of the 'Sons of Confederate Veterans' and protege of well-known southern pol Strom Thurmond- who blatantly violated Senate rules just so he could falsely accuse our first black president of being a liar, proves that idiotic, unflinching partisanship has trumped even common sense and decency.

Not only did you defend Wilson, you piled on with your own ridiculous accusations.

The only one in the room - that includes you, UL, and most of your commenters, including me - who has shown class, intelligence, and openness throughout this entire debate has been our new president, Barack Obama. I am amazed by all that he has accomplished, particularly in the face of such hateful opposition.

The fact that you will never be able to acknowledge that - and simply honor this decent man with a fair shake- is a shame, and a stain on our great nation.
- Dave, Sandwich

Right. Obamacare pays for no illegal aliens.

So we picture the hordes and hordes of them who are here and eliminate them from our minds.

Forgetting that OBAMA WANTS TO MAKE THEM ALL CITIZENS.

They're not illegal if they're legal, right?

Hello?
- Kathi Sharpe, Level Cross, NC

I have yet to see this administration or congress do anything but manipulate and take over aspects of society. Nothing they have touched so far works and some in this nation want to turn over our health care system to them.

I'm surprised they have not promised that every American will live to be a hundred if only we would allow them this control over us and that is the bottom line, handing over control. I hope the young people in this country wake up in time to reject this socialist scheme.
- Deb, Derry

"death panels"

"soviet style healthcare"

when Republican apologists use such obvious lies then you know that they have no rational oppsition to offer.

The truth of the debate is simple.
Unlike any other developed country, America fails to ensure that millions of its citizens have health insurnace. Millions more have coverage that is subject to arbitary and capricious rules, denials of coverage and outright corporate racketeering.

A few large corporation make vast profits off the back of the sufferring of millions.

If this bill, or something like it, was to pass, the likes of Anthem and BCBS would not be able to make huge sums of money off the sufferring of others.

To prevent this scenario, the health insurers are paying millions to proxies adn to the likes of Joe Wilson to buy votes against the bill.

Of course these bought politicians have no rational reason to oppose reform - so they make stuff up.
- Leon, Manchester

Obama remains the greatest danger this country has ever faced.
- Brian, Farmington

Illegal immigrants getting healthcare coverage is an immigration issue, not a healthcare issue. When people go to the emergency room, say for example when they are having a heart attack, are we really going to require that they prove they are here legally before they get care? Maybe Republicans never go to the emergency room? Or they don't get sick? The people against health care reform have thrown common sense out the window. The bill says that illegal aliens will not be eligible to get subsidized for health insurance coverage. Immigration reform needs to fix the bigger problem of people being in this country illegally.
- JoAnne, Manchester

Just when you think that the UL can't possibly sink to a new low.............they manage to do just that. Pathetic, truly pathetic.
- Bob V, Manchester

I suppose the kid who noted that the emperor had no clothes also spoke at the wrong time and was widely criticized. It can't get any worse than this.
- Leo, Canterbury

We have all lie to get what we want. No matter who it hurt. In this case Govt. leaders is no exception right or wrong .
- mo, plymouth

Rep Wilson offered his sincere apology, Rom Emmauel accepted it on the Presidents behalf. That should end it but it won't. The President has yet to offer his apology for the many whoppers he told during his speech. It is possible he actually believes much of what he says. I suppose if you surround yourself with enough "yes men" even you come to believe the lies and half-truths you creat. I recieved Shea-Porters weekly propoganda email regarding the Presidents speech and she certainly has drunk the Kool-aid. You would think someone who has repeatedly had the fact that government is the culprit that has stifled competition would finally acknowledge that and work to increase competition rather than lie about the government run "public option" as the only way to do so. Shea-Pelosi we can get rid of next year if the people of NH will pay attention. President Obama in 3 if the people of the country will pay attention. Sadly, the GOP needs to find a leader as not many of those are on the horizon at either the state or federal level. Sadly the libertarians, of which I consider myself one, are lost in the back waving "hey look at me" .
- jeff, goffstown

Obama lies.......we might get health care. Bush lies........the blood of our children runs in the streets of Iraq. I'm a-ok with Obama lies.
- Jake, Manchester

If only the UL had been this vigilant when George Bush lied about Iraq's non-existent weapons of mass destruction. You supposedly care about fiscal responsibility. How much did that lie cost us?
- Dom, Weare

Believe only what Obama does, not what he says.
- Fred Walker, Keene, NH

The CBO numbers make sense. They are based on the fact that you have to screen EVERYONE for a disease (e.g. cancer) to find out who has it. THe cost of those screenings outweigh the savings you get when you diagnose early. On an individual basis (only the ones who have the disease), you can save money. But applied to the system as a whole, it costs more.

If you want to see the letter from the CBO to the committee, go to http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc10492/08-07-Prevention.pdf
- Jack, Derry

Joe Wilson was right on target.

It was actually refreshing for me to hear someone in DC say something accurately and precisely with a conciseness that the moment deserved.

The sorry fact is that Shea-Porter, Hodes and Shaheen did the same to us in NH with their town meetings. Or rather their prescreened telephone meetings.
- Bob, Salem

Which plan? What plan? Whose plan?

A standard talking point for "reform" proponents, countering various objections of opponents, is, "There is no bill!"

And, sadly, that is true. There is not "a" bill, there are a couple of bills, and every bill has multiple variations and amendments. Not that anyone on either side of the issue would know: contrary to Obama's pledge for "greater transparency", and every bill being posted online for 5 days before a vote, NO ONE knows what the proposal actually contains.
- Kevin, Lancaster

I'd be intersted to see Congressional Budget Office documents this unnamed author is referring to.

There are almost no medical conditions that are more expensive to prevent or detect early than they are to cure.

Most Stage 1 cancer has a 90% or better cure rate and relies on common treatments. However Stage 4 requires very risky and costly treatments.

Would treating a heart attack in an ER cost less than diagnosing a heart disease with an EKG?

On the other hand, somebody dying at home due to an undiagnosed condition, like diabetes or COPD, would cost the insurance company nothing. That's about the only way to justify the statement that preventative care is cheaper than emergecny only care.
- Ian Muir, Manchester, NH

Guy Plante,

I asked obama that exact question whn he visited Portsmouth. Beside failing to answer my question on the two tier healthcare question, he announced that all further townhall meetings would feature pre-screened questions. America is waking up to the fact that the president elected is actually a manipulative marxist who will stop at nothing to rebuild the Unted States as he sees fit.

I struggle to understand how Mr Wilson was criticized for his negative feedback during obama's speech, when many other representatives and senators were equally vocal in support of obama. So is it really that anyone opposed to obama is wrong?

The house of representatives has 435 members, each of whom represents the people of their congressional district. What is right for 434 districts might not be right for the sole remaining district. If representatives, including carol shea-porter, are entititled to vocally support what the president is saying, they are equally entitled to vocally oppose what the president is saying. As the democratic party rightly said during Bush's tenure, dissent is patriotic. Lets hope there are a lot more patriots in congress!
- Michael Layon, Derry

Two points:
-Health care reform proposals will not go into effect until 2013, yet there was a rush to "get it done" before the congressional recess. Why wait until 2013 if the need for reform is so urgent?
-There was an attempt by Republicans, which was defeated in committee 21-18, to amend the proposed legislation to require coverage by the Congress and all federal employees. Washington has yet to address what most likely sticks in the craw of many Americans: why has Congress exempted itself from this legislation?
- Guy Plante, Manchester

Obama was NOT right about coverage for illegals. "It's not in the bill"--but neither is verification of citizenship, wink wink! The ACORN vote-fraud foundry isn't in any bill either--but the Marxists who survive Van Jones pick the grant recipients.

AP reports that the "rude" Joe Wilson is forcing Obama to take a hard line on benefits for invaders. (At least until he turns his attention to total amnesty.) And before Joe, the "in over her head" Sarah Palin, with her imprecise citation of Death Panels, forced Obamoids to deny it, then (in this forum) to claim Bush supported it too (in Medicare Part D), then finally to take payments for "end-of-life counseling" out of HB 3200.

Soviet-style health care is being softened by harsh, rude, unseasoned, REAL Republicans, like the man Judd Gregg could have been. And the key to killing Obama-care outright is out, as Obama keeps retreating. Use theatrics if you must, but all you need do is catch him in a lie. And it is ALL a lie.
- Spike, Brentwood NH

whom wrote this?
- chris, newton