Union Leader Logo

Site Search

 Events Calendar > All

Debates: Who's in, who's out, who's mad

Share on Facebook

Reader comments

By JOHN DISTASO
Senior Political Reporter

This weekend's presidential debates and forum will not include some nationally known candidates, and the chairmen of the state Republican and Democratic parties are not happy.

Fergus Cullen and Raymond Buckley say the decisions by ABC News, WMUR and, in Cullen's case, FOX News, are inconsistent with the New Hampshire Presidential primary's tradition of providing a level playing field for all candidates.

ABC News and WMUR television (Channel 9) confirmed yesterday they have established performance-based criteria for Saturday's presidential debates. The rules could leave several candidates on the outside looking in, including Reps. Dennis Kucinich and Duncan Hunter, as well as Sens. Joe Biden and Chris Dodd.

And Cullen confirmed that FOX News has invited only five presidential candidates to a Republican forum scheduled for Sunday night, leaving out Ron Paul and Hunter. Cullen said the state GOP was in "ongoing discussions with FOX News about having as many candidates as possible participate" and remained a forum co-sponsor as of yesterday.


UPDATE: Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama this afternoon issued statements prodding ABC and WMUR not to narrow the field.

Obama said: "The voters of New Hampshire deserve to hear all the Democratic candidates’ views on who can best lead America in a fundamentally new direction, and that’s why I urge these networks to allow full participation in this week’s debate.”

Clinton said: "I believe in the true spirit of the New Hampshire process, the candidates who have participated in past debates should not be excluded from this one."

In an earlier posting on a liberal Democratic blog, BlueHampshire.com, one of Clinton's top local supporters, former state party chair Kathy Sullivan, had said that anyone upset by the debate's format should call WMUR and complain.

In contrast, John Edwards told UnionLeader.com this afternoon, "I'm staying out of that. I don't get to set the rules for the debates. I'll let the people who are in charge of the debates set the rules. And I'll be there."


According to WMUR News Director Andrew Vrees and a posting on the ABC News Web site, in order to participate in the Saturday night back-to-back GOP and Democratic events at St. Anselm College, candidates must meet at least one of three criteria:

  • Place in the top four in the Iowa caucuses, which will be held Thursday.
  • Poll 5 percent or higher in one of the last four reputable random sample New Hampshire telephone surveys sponsored by an established news organization and conducted and released by 9 a.m. on Friday.
  • Poll 5 percent or higher in one of the last four reputable random sample national telephone surveys sponsored by an established news organization and conducted and released on or before 9 a.m. Friday.

"WMUR and ABC discussed for a lengthy period of time what the criteria would be, and we agreed to the final criteria," Vrees said. He said that he and station manager Jeff Bartlett were involved in the discussions.

Vrees said WMUR "has been incredibly inclusive when it comes to the candidates throughout the year. Each of them has had an hour-long segment. We did the candidate cafe' series where each candidate sat down with voters, and we're airing 10 questions right now, including answers from each candidate.

"I doubt that there are many television stations that have been as inclusive throughout the year as we have, providing all candidates with more air time," he said.

But Vrees also said, "Right now, Dodd has a half of a percent in our most recent poll. That's two in 512 telling us they'd vote for Chris Dodd. Gravel has zero and Dennis Kucinich has two percent, and we're rounding up.

"Historically," said Vrees, "candidates with these types of numbers a week before the primary don't fare much better on Election Day."

Vrees noted that Biden has said if he does not finish in the top three in Iowa, his campaign is probably finished.

"We want to give the voters the most robust debate possible, and if there are a limited number of candidates on stage, they will have the time to address the issues being discussed," Vrees said.

Cullen said FOX News has invited John McCain, Mitt Romney, Rudy Giuliani, Fred Thompson and Mike Huckabee to the Sunday forum.

"No one else was invited," Cullen said.

In a statement, Cullen was critical of all sponsors of the debates and the forum.

"Limiting the number of candidates who are invited to participate in debates is not consistent with the tradition of the first-in-the-nation primary," he said. "The level playing field requires that all serious candidates be given an equal opportunity to participate €" not just a selected few determined by the media prior to any votes being cast."

He said that the state GOP "calls upon all media organizations planning pre-primary debates or forums for both parties to include all recognized major candidates in their events. There is plenty of time to limit the field, after New Hampshire."

Democratic Chairman Raymond Buckley focused his comments on WMUR.

"New Hampshire has a long and proud tradition of serving as a level playing field," he said. "New Hampshire is the one state where each candidate can be given an equal opportunity to be heard by the voters. I would strongly encourage any New Hampshire media outlet holding candidate debates or forums to not eliminate a sitting U.S. senator or member of Congress."

GOP candidate Paul has said that FOX News is "scared of me" and called the network "propagandists for this (Iraq) war, and I challenge them on the notion that they are conservative."

Paul spokesman Kate Rick said the Paul campaign "has called FOX a half-dozen times and received no response.

"We have been here in New Hampshire a fair amount. We have raised $19 million this quarter, and we're polling at 8 percent here, which is ahead of Mr. Thompson," Rick said. "We are at a loss as to what criteria we are not meeting."

Kucinich spokesman Chris Collier said he found a poll from August in which Kucinich drew 7 percent, adding, "I'm going to present that to the sponsors."

Biden spokesman Evan Carlson said, "We expect to be fourth or better coming out of Iowa, and there are a couple of polls out there that have us at 5 percent or higher, so we're not particularly worried about it. We're going to be there."

Dodd spokesman Bryan DeAngelis said, "We were invited and fully expect to meet the criteria because voters are beginning to focus on who they want in the chair when the unexpected occurs."

YOUR COMMENTS


Yes, Kirk is right. Only candidates who espouse acceptable points of view endorsed by the media and party leaders should be heard. Candidates who merely have the support of so-called "voters" but who otherwise lack serious support should be excluded.
- Donald Cameron, New York, NY

Clearly I'm in the minority here (to say the least), but it is about time that ultra-fringe candidates started being excluded from debates at this point in the election cycle. We're picking a leader of the country for the next 4 years in a time of conflict and it is an utter waste of time to be hearing from people who are unable to poll a measly 5% at this point in the cycle either in NH OR nationally and who can't finish in the top 2/3 of Iowa caucus as to what they'd do if elected at the expense of hearing from candidates who do have a chance. This is democracy folks: the people, not the media (who set a very low threshold for participation here), have decided who to exclude based on their votes and their responses to the polls.

Those candidates may have some very interesting things to say and may be well worth listening to in other forums, but not a presidential debate 11 months before the election. They've had time to indulge their vanity, participate in debates and garner support, but the regular season is over and it is playoff time. Time that attention is turned to serious, credible candidates.
- Kirk Stepanian, Hudson, NH

This is UNBELIEVABLE, particularly following the Des Moines Register's exclusion of candidates last month. In a survey published by WMUR and CNN today, the 2nd of Jan., it states that 32% of those to likely vote in the Democratic primary are still undecided; 27% are leaning towards a candidate. That is ENTIRELY too many for WMUR to exclude any Democrats based on "polling numbers" (and likely the Republican numbers are similar). These number are at the bottom of page one in the survey, located here: http://www.unh.edu/survey-center/news/pdf/primary2008_demprim10208.pdf

This is really saddening, and frightening, and everyone reading should feel uncertain about the ability of Americans to have an impartial presentation of the candidates, and thus choose their leader.
- Brendan, Arlington, VA

I want to thank ABC, WMUR and FOX for doing my thinking for me. Because they are pre-selecting the candidates whose ideas will be presented to me in the debates, it allows me to not have to actually think. Perhaps after the debates, they could also have a newscaster tell me who to vote for.
- JC, Londonderry

well john edwards , if you are not in the business of standing up for this , then I believe my theory on you is right . you are not fit to be president when you will not stand up for fairness. I did not believe in you and now I know why , you are unpricipaled I beleive.
- george r sands, Cadiz

I believe the GOP of New Hampshire has a responsibility to stand up for what it believes in, by pulling out of supporting this event. We should protest the negation of the American Public's right to have a fair and balanced presentation of all candidates in favor of the powers that be at Fox network.
- Jenn, Andover

Well done Union leader, and again I say bravo for the New Hampshire citizen’s spirit of fair play that is so evident in these many responses listed here and shame on Fox and ABC for their unsavory lack of ethics!! And the media moguls thought that no one would notice shaving off a few candidates– Bah!!

Living far north here in Alaska; I was very concerned when our candidate of choice –Ron Paul was unfairly excluded from the Jan. 6th WMUR event. However, after the noble effort on the part of the Union Leader in reporting this foul play – and the over whelming outrage displayed from New Hampshire folks and others- it is now evident that those networks have over played their hand by plainly showing their devious agendas and their lack of respect for traditions of the State of New Hampshire. They will be the ultimate losers for it. Thank you NH for your pluck- Live free or Die!!
- Thomas A. O'Brien, North Pol, Alaska

I think the real point is. With all that money raised, why don't these "excluded" runners, pool their resources and setup a forum of debate properly without the use of news media. The Internet exists just for that purpose. Expose yourselves to the world like true candidates, stop pandering to just the American Media and start debating on a truly innovative and popular forum. Pay for the bandwidth and instead of trashing your competition on-line. Debate each other live from your own stadiums. Break some new ground and stand for something bigger than just being excluded from a single debate.
- Chris Smith, Vermont

I agree with those who want all to speak at the debates. Oops, Big Brother from the Patriot Act is at my door.
- karen, manchester

I'm voting for Joe Biden and if he's not in the debate I won't watch...simple enough.
WMUR is making a big mistake.
- Tracy, Goffstown

I don't see why Fox News would bother excluding Paul and Hunter from their forum... I mean, it's not like they'd be asked any relevant questions or given more than a couple of minutes airtime anyway, as we've seen in previous debates.

Personally, I think it's absolutely insane how the media is controlling this election. I know it's happened in the past (remember Alan Keyes in 2000?) but this time 'round, it seems so blatant to the point that it's downright sickening. Though I find it more repugnant that the vast majority of Americans either don't notice, are too stupid to notice, or just don't give a crap.
- Joshua T. Newell, Troy

This is absolutely ridiculous! I just read the article titled "Americans frustrated by influence wielded by Iowa, New Hampshire" talking about these two states hold all the power. The article stated that the arguement in favor of the current voting schedule for the primaries gives the "little guys," those without as large a budget or name, a chance. How can the "little guys" have a chance, if they are held out of the debates?!?! This is not at all what the early primaries were about.
- Lester Craig, Salem, OR

What we are seeing here is just another problem with our de-facto two party system of government in bed with a “for profit” news marketing corporation. If the people of this country really want to break out of the same-old, same-old insider Washington crap, we need access to all the candidates, not just the front runners of the two major parties. Hew Hampshire is the place to start. I understand that it is difficult to run a debate with a large number of people, but to not do so limits the choices the electorate has to choose from. At first blush it sounds fine to limit the debates to just the front runners, but how did these people become front runners? There hasn’t been a single primary vote cast yet. The front runners are those people that the media tells us are front runners. The media runs the polls and reports the results. The candidates with the most money and name recognition are always on the front pages of the newspapers, TV, and computer news screens. Why? Because they are the ones that sell the news. If WMUR really wants to be a facilitator of change, then they must find a way to include all candidates, not just the ones with enough money or the affiliation with either of the two parties, to get noticed by the media. The potential electorate should be choosing who they want to hear in the debate not the news media and their advertisers. The media has the power to put any candidate in the front runner position, or to keep them out, merely by choosing how much coverage to provide that individual. How long are we going to settle for this? The media in this country has historically been a vehicle for change in all facets of our lives by reporting all the news and empowering the people to make the changes the people want. How sad they have become now a vehicle for telling us only what we need to know, with them making the decision as to what is best for us and our country – or who is a viable candidate and who is not. The banner on Fox’s web site says “We report – you decide”. Well let’s hold them accountable to that statement. The media has become a “for profit” corporation. They basically report those items that draw attention and therefore sell advertising when they should be reporting all the news. When they should be presenting to the people the views and the positions of all the candidates.
John Noll
Claremont
- John Noll, Claremont

What was John Kerry polling before the 2004 primary? Barring candidates from a debate that is itself a forum for THE PEOPLE to decide who is to be excluded is criminal.
- Jordan Andrews, Merrimack

Secretary of State Gardner has said the country is well-served because the NH primary requires close contact with voters, not just a big advertising budget and name recognition. "It gives the little guy a chance," said Gardner.

It seems to me the little guy has no chance in our system.

We should just get it over and change our name to The United Corporation of America, LLC.
- Del Maxwell, Manchester

i think they are not being fair at all,Ron Paul and Hunter should be invited the race is not over! i am for Hillary but Fair is fair, i think that if Hunter had a chanch to really run he would be a great one
- pearl elliott, elizabethtown,Ky.

If Paul is out I am out, FOX can have what ever debate they want but they are excluding candidates that have a proven ability to raise enormous amounts of money at will for citizen's that are expressing there interest in the process. These people have put there money where there mouth is. There are million's of them and his polling numbers are above the stated numbers so why is he being excluded? Fred Thompson and Mike Huckabee have no chance of a win in NH so why are they in?
- Joshua Tessier, Manchester NH

It is disappointing and disturbing that New Hampshire Media are allowing the national media to hi-jack our reputation for fairness and present themselves as being "fair & balanced".

Personally I would like to see every business, organization and person in New Hampshire boycott the debates and forums AND their sponsers.

We do not need outsdiders (or for that matter, insiders) being gatekeepers for us.
- Dave E., Rochester

Open letter to all the republican candidates for president. My name is Ken Blevens and I have personally been excluded from debates in my quest for political office. I have always asked this question regarding those that are participating. Do you feel completely comfortable with your participation?

Libertarian Ken Blevens
- Ken Blevens, Bow

Anyone want to bet that WMUR would include Joe Biden if he were to write a few checks for advertising?
- Rick Newman, Nottingham

Regardless of the outcome of the spat between Fox and the GOP, the people of New Hampshire do have an opportunity to see Dr. Paul on January 6th. The Free State Project's New Hampshire Liberty Forum will be held that day and Ron Paul is the closing speaker. I hope Fox will include him later in the day in their forum, but if not, other media outlets might use this as an opportunity to gain market share by picking up the slack when Fox, contrary to their slogan, doesn't report.

Details on the Liberty Forum are here: http://freestateproject.org/libertyforum
- Varrin Swearingen, Keene, NH

How sad that 5 people talking about how they will follow an identical agenda 'a little bit better than the other guy' can be considered a debate. That is a club meeting and nothing more. I say vote only among those the major media excludes. Now *that* would make for an interesting primary season.
- Dan, Indiana

Why would anyone be surprised by this? The media is in control of what we hear and what we don't. They slant things to suit their own agenda.
- Paula, Londonderry

No problem with getting the lower tier candidates out of the debate. Maybe they can hold their own debate and the 30-40 people who are interested in that can watch on Youtube or something.
- Marc, Auburn

This is the media who is all about controlling whose message can and cannot get out and who will be supported by the elitists. (A key clue here is notice one certain GOP candidate who has no money, no organization and is not a real conservative but now has CFR's Richard Haas on his side and woops, he's suddenly gone from 2% to 36%... don't buy it!) Depending on polling that utilizes land lines, many of which go unanswered, is like asking only those with horses and buggies to answer. It's out of date technology and quite inaccurate.
- Jane Aitken, Bedford, NH

So when Dr. Paul places in the top four in Iowa, will they go ahead and include him then?
- Rochelle, Manchester, NH

When did our democratic process of electing a president get sold to corporate sponsors? What happened to "We The People" choosing our next president, not corporate America? Excluding any candidate from these presidential debates is a travesty of justice, and further shows the depths of media manipulation and corporate corruption designed to keep the status quo. My ancestors include President John Adams, John Quincy Adams, John Alden, and Roger Williams. My ancestors sacrificed to create an America that was for the people, not the corporate raiders of our democracy. Yet the candidate I support, Dennis Kucinich, the greatest defender of our Constitution, is being excluded from debates, and marginalized by MSM for reasons that smack of corporate loyalties. This is not the America of our Founding Fathers. We've sold our democracy to the highest bidder.
- Linda Nelford, Scottsdale, Arizona

Disgusting!! How un-democratic.! Ray Buckley is right on re NH having always provided a level playing field. We all know how the media has been so unfair throughout the pre-primaries,with their daily national polls, but to bring this unfairness to NH is not only undemocratic, but un-American .
Why should we in NH have to rely on Iowa pols in our elections and why do the major candidates go along with this injustice?? if this is how they treat their colleagues, how do you think they are likely to treat the American people. And I am ashamed of my alma mater for collaborating in this injustice.
It does make it easier for us to skip the debate and also harder to vote for the Dem nominee
- William J. McCarthy, Manchester NH

It is unfortunate that the media, including this newspaper has aggressively tried to play the role of "king maker" in this Presidential Primary. Over the last year the debates for the most part have been disappointing. Editors, Producers and Executives of media organizations have sought to distract voters from issues by brining up things like religious views, diamonds and pearls and snowmen. CNN being the worst with the Hillary Clinton "planted questioners" in the audience to the most agenda driven Youtube questions out of the thousands submitted. Now this newspaper and the Concord Monitor with its "anti Endorsement" of Mitt Romney. It is truly a sad day for consumers of news and the voters in this primary.
- Chris, Merrimack

It is inexcusable in NH the stated with the largest state representative body in the United States of America that Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter are not allowed to partake in this debate. Dr. Ron Paul raised almost 20 million dollars from individuals in the last quarter.

What happened with retail politics in New Hampshire? FOX news who claims to be fair and balanced is excluding a superior candidate with very different views from the majority of republicans from being heard in New Hampshire. This is when the primary really heats up as people have more time now that the busy Christmas season is over. They can concentrate on the upcoming elections. FOX News are you scared of Dr. Paul?
- Scott Thompson, Enfield NH

Is this a real issue for New Hampshire voters,or is it more a power play between WMUR anf The Union Leader?
- Ted Lehmann, Keene

NOTE: If you have visited this page before, newer comments may be hidden. Press F5, or hold down the Ctrl key while reloading or refreshing the page. (Another option for Firefox users is the Clear Cache add-on.)